tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN February 1, 2013 11:00pm-12:00am EST
even part of this sordid little tale. some things just aren't meant to be. your friday night now involves the image of larry king lunging at katie couric, i think i've done my job on the ridiculist. that's it for us. thanks for watching. "erin burnett out front" starts now. >> a suicide bomber stages a deadly strike on an american embassy and this time the white house quick to label it a terrorist attack. plus, a prosecutor gunned down on the way to work. friend says he believes he was in serious danger. was it revenge for doing his job? and guns and politics. did joe biden slip of the tongue just wreck the president's message on guns? let's go out front. good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. american embassy attacked. a suicide bomber struck at a security checkpoint at the american embassy in turkey today, and this time the white house immediately labeled it an act of terror.
>> a suicide bombing on the perimeter of an embassy is by definition an act of terror, a terrorist attack. however, we do not know at this point who is responsible or the motivations behind the attack. the attack itself is clearly an act of terror. >> an act of terror regardless of who is responsible or what their motivations are. more on that in a moment, but first, chris lawrence at the pentagon. chris, the turkish government says it does have a bit more sense of who the attacker was, what are they saying? >> reporter: erin, they think it is a man named etchvech shamly. they say he trained in europe on how to make bombs and has attacked before. the group is a throwback to the cold war, a far left revolutionary group that wants to overthrow turkey's government
and establish some sort of communist state. >> and why would they target the u.s. embassy? >> reporter: they are anti-capitalists and they're very, very opposed to the u.s. and nato. analysts say probably two reasons for this attack. one is to embarrass the turkish government. two is to protest the presence of u.s. patriot missiles on turkish soil. right now, 400 american troops are in turkey and they are moving that patriot missile battery into position on turkey's border with syria. turkey requested that help because of the mortars flying in from syria and they wanted the american missile to help shoot it down. >> and chris, how was the attacker able to gain access to the embassy compound? with all this talk about embassy security and what happened in benghazi, how was the attacker able to get there? >> reporter: basically he walked up to the embassy wearing a suicide vest. but it's a gated compound with blast doors, reinforced windows,
and several checkpoints. he never made it past the very first checkpoint. so when he exploded his vest, it killed one of the local turkish guards who had been working for the embassy. it also injured two more guards but they were behind bullet-proof glass. he never got near the main building. >> thanks very much to chris lawrence. out front tonight, brooks versus brooks. peter brooks, former assistant deputy secretary of defense in the bush administration and rosa brooks, former assistant secretary of defense in the obama administration, pretty perfect, guys. rosa, i want to start with you on this issue of language and what this country calls a terror attack and what it doesn't. obviously it appears after benghazi it was not as clear as it was today. i wanted to play an exchange that happened between state department spokesperson victoria nuland and a reporter a week after the attack on the american consulate in benghazi. >> does the united states government regard what happened
in benghazi as an act of terror? >> again, i'm not going to put labels on this until we have a complete investigation. okay? >> you don't regard it as an act of terrorism? >> i don't think we know enough. i don't think we know enough. >> all right, here, rosa, is what jay carney said today about the attack in turkey. >> a suicide bombing on the perimeter of an embassy is by definition an act of terror, it is a terrorist attack. >> it seems like that's a pretty direct reaction to the controversy about benghazi. >> i think that's absolutely right, erin. i think no one ever said this administration was not a learning organization and the lesson they drew from benghazi is you're never going to make a mistake if you call it an act of terrorism. i don't think it matters what you call it. i think the reason after benghazi they were cautious about calling it terrorism is because we hear terrorism, we immediately think al qaeda. the important thing to keep in mind is there are a lot of terrorists out there and not all of them have anything to do with al qaeda, but that doesn't mean they can't do us damage. >> fair point, it doesn't appear
to be al qaeda. peter, do you agree, it doesn't matter what you call it? >> not at all. we've talked about benghazi in the past. i think it was critical that the administration came out like they did today when benghazi happened. we talked about all the motivations in the past, why they may have decided to parse words or quibble over definitions but i think it was very important what they did today and that's what i think they should have done regarding benghazi. unfortunately, they just didn't. we still don't have a lot of the answers about the tragic events in libya. >> rosa, we're getting new information in that i think is obviously relevant here. according to our reporting here at cnn, cnn's fran townsend saying, the suicide bomber that did this attack in turkey was known to american and other intelligence agencies. again, it seems that we have information and aren't always able to act on it in time. is this a sign of a failure on the part of the united states? >> there's no way to know. i think we've got to wait for the investigation to come out.
i think one of the other lessons of benghazi is it's a really bad idea to start speculating before you've got the facts. it may turn out that we screwed up on this one, that it was preventible. on the other hand, the good news is he didn't get past the first checkpoint. we weren't able to stop him altogether but we kept him from doing a lot more damage that he wanted to do. >> this person didn't get past the first ring of security. that's how these installations are supposed to be, fortress-like. i spoke to jon huntsman a week after benghazi, let me play what he had to say. i think it's more powerful coming from his mouth than mine, here he is. >> but our consulates, particularly those that are relatively new, as is the case in libya, some of them are a little vulnerable. as we continue to shift our relationships throughout the world and provide new outreach to different geographic areas, this is going to have to be a real focus on the part of the
state department. >> peter, are they focusing on this enough? >> that's the big concern. but jon huntsman is right that they are walking the knife's edge. you don't want an embassy to look like fortress america, and many of them do today. you have to reach out to the people. people need to access it. in the same sense, we live in very dangerous times and you've got to maintain your security. now, when you said this was the first line of the defense, this is actually the last line of defense. your first line of defense i would say is intelligence. you need to -- you want to try to get this guy in his hometown when he's strapping on the vest, not at the embassy. outside the embassy walls it's the local police force, local security forces, you rely on them as well. you want those layers of security, those rings of security around your high-value facilities. in this case, it appears despite the tragedy of three people, one person dying, that it did work. they did not get inside the u.s. embassy in ankara. >> rosa, when you said
absolutely jay carney's response in saying this was a terror attack, when last time, a week later after benghazi, victoria nuland from the state department refused to say that, isn't it fair at this point to say, it seems like look, it was election season, we don't need to have al qaeda, al qaeda names out there, al qaeda attacks out there, so let's not say that was the situation? >> i don't think it's fair. i think these situations are often really confusing, especially at first. you also don't want to get it wrong, say it's al qaeda and it turns out to be a mentally ill resident and you look like an idiot. erring on the side of caution is not a stupid thing to do. i wanted to echo something peter said, though. getting the balance between openness and safety right. if we want to make absolutely sure all of our diplomats are absolutely safe, we'd never let them leave washington, d.c. part of the name of the game is you're accepting some risk in order to get some benefits. >> i want to ask each of you who is to blame for the situation where we've seen cuts in embassy security.
because we have. in the sequester which everyone was so hot and bothered about at the end of the year and nobody seems to give a hoot about now, because it's going to go ahead, embassy security is going to be cut by $129 million, a more than 8% cut in embassy security. the republican-controlled house and the democratically-controlled senate proposed funning levels below that which the president had originally requested. that appears to be a bipartisan fail. >> yep, you got it. right down the street from us we've got the institution we can blame for this. >> it's more than that. you have to peel back the layers of the onion. there's a lot of the things that go into security. intelligence, there's physical security, there's security at the embassy regarding marine guards or local hires. i think it's critically important we don't just focus on numbers, we focus on the effectiveness and quality of that security. and that's something that somebody has to be doing day to day basis depending on the
threats we face. you could spend a show on this but i don't want to just say, you know, it's based on some budget numbers. there's a lot of the things at play here other than budget numbers. >> thanks very much. >> but money sure helps. >> thanks to both, appreciate it. vice president joe biden pushing his gun control plan hard, then makes a statement that must have the white house at the least head-scratching. the hostage standoff in alabama enters its fourth day and we have a first look at the man who is responsible for this. then hillary clinton. she logged her last day as secretary of state. we take you to the going-away party and we promise you you have seen nothing like this about hillary clinton before.
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our second story "outfront," joe biden. misspeaking or too honest? in the case of joe biden, it is probably both. but let me give you the case. this is the man who is leading the president's gun task force. here's what he said on capitol hill last night. >> nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun
deaths down to 1,000 a year from what it is now. >> okay. even if you agree with what joe biden just said, you might find it strange that he'd say his gun control legislation won't stop mass shootings. because he's surrounded himself with children who wrote the white house letters about gun violence when he said this two weeks ago. >> we have a moral obligation, a moral obligation to do everything in our power to diminish the prospect that something like this could happen again. >> so which is it? gun control will stoop mass shootings or not? "outfront," cnn's john avlon, ryan, let me start with you. joe biden's comments that he said there at the beginning, saying this isn't going to fundamentally change whether we have a mass shooting or not, sounds similar to wayne lapierre, who you are aware is
the head of the nra. listen to him. >> gun control, you could ban all dianne feinsteins, do whatever she wants to with magazines, it's not going to make any kid safer. >> okay. they're buddies now. >> they're not buddies. consider the audience that joe biden was talking to. joe biden is good at making deals on the hill because these talking to these guys as equals. we know what's what, i'm not going to promise you the moon, this might make a little bit of a difference. here's the way policy-making works in general. you have a crisis, you break glass in case of emergency. there's some policy agenda that's been collecting dust on the shelf and you break it out. remember the iraq war, same thing. 9/11 happens, iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but a lot of people wanted to invade iraq -- so, they thought, hey, this san opportunity. it relates to terrorism -- >> there's some people who think you're talking crazy talk there >> there are people who want gun control. there was a political opportunity to push gun control agenda that was round for a long time before this. >> john, do you think this
undercuts joe biden's argument? what he's saying had a lot of truth, yet you surround yourself with kids two weeks before to say, we're going to prevent mass shootings with my legislation. you have a little bit of an optical issue? >> optics, yes. i do think this fits the classic definition of a washington gaffe, which is, someone tells the truth. what he's saying is this. he's saying, we're not going to be able to stop all mass shootings, we're not going to be able to eliminate gun violence from 11,000 homicides a year to 1,000. that's true. but the question is, do we have a moral obligation to try to reduce that number? and i don't think that's inconsistent at all. inartfully said, yes, but that's part of the odd charm of joe biden. >> is cornell right? love him because he speaks the truth, even if it only hurts himself? >> i know. i think john's spot-on. he is telling the truth. the thing about joe biden, you love him despite some of these gaffes. i mean, right now, the guy's got a 59% job approval which ain't
half bad. a lot of people arguing that he -- certainly if hillary doesn't jump if, he's probably the front-runner for the democratic nomination. and he did himself a world of good, if you go back to the debates after obama's less than spectacular debate performance, here's a guy who really went after ryan and really, whether you're democrat or republican, he did a really good job of pinning ryan down and made a lot of progressive base really energized. so despite his gaffes, i think a lot of people on the left still love joe biden. >> this seems like a problem to me. basically to me, yes, he has these children. he's saying this is going to have a big impact, it's a moral imperative we do this to address the problem of mass shootings. if you want to address the broader gun violence and crime problem, what are the most effective strategies? what are the most effective strategies championed by bill clinton, more police on the streets. these not going to affect mass shootings. >> most people die in this
country in gun violence, which is inner city -- >> but there's no constituency for that. >> there's a huge constituency for that. every mayor in america would like that. if you're going to have a comprehensive solution, you're going to have to deal with mental health. you can talk about video games. joe's going to need to deal with guns. maybe universal background check has a realistic chance of passing in congress. maybe we should be talking about that as well. >> maybe i am just a -- i don't know. sad, angry person here, but i don't believe that we're going to get something comprehensive that deals with assault weapons and background checks and mental health and everything else. you're going to have to choose, pick your spots. >> no, but that's part of the issue i think that's going to unfold in the off-year elections. john again is right. there is broad support here for things like universal background checks. in fact, you know, i think approval approach 90% as a pollster, we never see anything sort of much above 80%, 90%.
broad approval like registration and the banning of high-capacity clips. i think if you were a democrat or going to election, you want to nationalize this issue you want to say, if you think we should do something about gun violence, vote democrat. if you think we should do nothing about gun violence, vote republican. >> you're right, except you just made me have this vision of the most amazing thing that could happen in america. two people who love gun control. chris christie and joe biden, who both love to have gaffes and speak the truth, running against each other, and those debates, people would actually want to watch. >> i want to throw one thing out about what cornell said this is about voting for democrats that might be a good national political issue. here's the problem. california has universal background checks. there are a number of states that have these provisions in place. let's consider what they've done, how cost effective and effective they are relative to hiring more police officers.
the truth is that we're going for solutions that aren't necessarily very effective but they might work as a political issue so that's why we pursue them. >> fair point. six of the 55 senate democrats have indicated they have a problem with the assault weapons ban. you may not get that because there are democrats who support guns too. obviously not as many. all you need is a few. the state senators are close to passing an anti-paparazzi act. more than two-thirds of hawaii's lawmakers signed on to a bill that will allegedly protect celebrities from paparazzi by allowing the celebs to sue the photographers for snapping the shots. now, it doesn't look like these people are being caught by surprise, does it? the lawmaker says the bill will help hawaii's tourism and film industry because famous people will want to work there if they know they won't be photographed. one thing we found interesting is who got the ball rolling on this whole thing. according to the senator who proposed the act, it is inspired by, and named for, steven tyler.
yes, steven tyler. the lead singer of aerosmith and former "american idol" judge after spending most of his life in the spotlight, decided his privacy is too important now or maybe he got tired of seeing photos like this one. you know, last month this shot of steven tyler was snapped on a beach in hawaii. for some reason he was not happy with it. and apparently he spoke to a senator. now, the problem is plenty of other celebrities go to hawaii to the right beaches for the purpose of being photographed. there is nothing like looking caught by surprise when you're sun-kissed, athletic. nobody is avoiding hawaii because of the paparazzi. this was on "american idol" last night. >> what is your name? >> my name is pippy. >> what do you do? >> i'm going to sing a song called "tell your mom, tell your pa, i'm not going to go". >> clearly a man who doesn't
want to draw attention to himself. out front next, a prosecutor gunned down at a texas courthouse and the shooter is still at large. a 5-year-old boy held hostage in an underground bunker for four days and we'll go to alabama. suddenly, she does something unexpected and you see the woman you fell in love with. she's everything to you. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently.
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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start with stories we care about where we focus on reporting from the front lines. we begin with the dow, topping 14,000 for the first time since 2007. it is less than 200 points away now from its all-time high. one of the things that helped lift stocks today was the jobs report. the u.s. economy added 157,000 jobs in january. now, that was just in line with expectations. now the unemployment rate did go up to 7.9% but economists we spoke to describe the report as decent and say it shows the economy's continuing to grow at a moderate pace. the department of health and human services proposed new guidelines that allow religious institutions to avoid paying for contraception coverage. the proposed rules would let certain groups like hospitals and schools decline to provide that coverage for religious reasons. women can get the coverage but the insurance provider has to pay for their contraception separately. the catholic health association you may recall had asked for
changes to the contraception mandate, had gone to the president, and they say they are now studying his new proposal. the french president francois hollande will visit mali this weekend. he'll go to timbuktu. french troops have been helping the malian army oust rebels who have taken over the northern part of the country. the french face the daunting task of securing mali, preventing country from becoming a magnet for extremists, a tough task. hollande no doubt wants to see this as a victory lap tomorrow. a more difficult phase, trying to truly defeat militants who may be planning terrorist attacks. protesters attack the presidential palace in cairo. security forces responded with tear gas and water cannons. a local hospital tells us one person was shot and killed today. james galvin who wrote the book "the arab uprisings" tell us though they may not be as
violent as these ones, the protests will continue because the revolution that started two years ago has never finished. there are questions about the leadership in the country and the economy is in a tailspin. it has been 547 days since the united states lost its credit rating. the dow at 14,000 will help but two good pieces of news, consumer sentiment and construction spending better than expected. manhunt in texas. investigators tonight combing through leads in a desperate attempt to track down the killer who shot and killed mark hasse. a kaufman county assistant district attorney gunned down in the courthouse parking lot yesterday morning. a friend tells cnn hasse feared for his life. he had begun carrying a gun in and out of work and going out a different exit every day because of his fear. drew griffin is "outfront" with the latest. >> reporter: there has been so little leads in this investigation, late this afternoon, the sheriff's department actually cancelled a press conference they were going
to have because there's basically nothing to report. you can see the anguish on these law officers' faces. this morning when they had to come out and say, after 24 hours or so, there were no significant advances in finding who did this. part of the frustration is it happened in broad daylight, 9:00 a.m. in the morning, at a parking lot right across from a downtown court nauhouse in kauf texas. there were lots and lots of witnesses. but what the witnesses talk, according to police, varies so wildly that they don't even know the race of the perpetrator or the perpetrators. it could be one or two shooters. those shooters could be wearing masks or possibly hoodies. one thing they know is they believe the killer or killers drove away in a gray or silver sedan. mark hasse was a prosecutor, he handled some tough cases. his friends believe he was targeted. >> i think he was assassinated. that's what it looks like to me.
because the organization, they obviously knew where he parked. they've obviously been following him. i mean, it's pure speculation on my part but how do they know to be here? >> reporter: what investigators are now doing is looking through an extensive caseload that mark hasse was carrying and past cases, trying to look for clues of a retribution or revenge killing stemming from one of his cases. but he prosecuted some really bad folks. members of the aryan brotherhood, white supremacist, mexican drug dealers, meth drug dealers in this county. he was a good prosecutor which means he prosecuted a lot of bad people. sheriff says that has got them looking in all directions to see who could have done this. but right now the only thing that's really changed in this story is the reward for any tip. it's up to near $70,000 for anybody who can help catch the killer. erin? >> thanks to drew. and obviously just a bizarre and horrible story.
as we try to get answers on who was responsible to bring that person to justice, the murder of assistant district attorney mark hasse, underscores the rift prosecutors and judges face in this country for doing their jobs. tom foreman is "outfront" with that. >> i will tell you that we're not ruling out any involvement until we know. >> reporter: even as investigators in this texas town hunt for the men suspected of gunning down deputy district attorney mark hasse, they are asking, was he targeted because he was a prosecutor? u.s. marshal service says the number of threats or potential threats leveled at judges and others in federal courts has nearly tripled in the past decade, from 500 to almost 1,400. >> i think a lot of people have a misconception that prosecutors have security forces protecting them. >> reporter: cnn legal analyst and former prosecutor paul kalyn says top court officials
in big cities may have guards, but no one else does. >> unless there's been an explicit threat made against a prosecutor in the course of a trial or investigation, then he'll have a security detail. >> reporter: attacks on prosecutors are rare but not unknown. >> we will never concede the fight to end handgun violence in this state. >> reporter: that was assistant u.s. attorney thomas wales, an outspoken opponent of guns. he was killed by a shot through the window of his seattle home in 2001. no one has ever been charged. in 2005, in chicago, u.s. district court judge joan lefkow's husband and 89-year-old mother were killed by a man who authorities say were angry he had dismissed his lawsuit. >> the man is no longer there, neither the grandmother who made each of her 20 grandchildren and
great grandchild believe each was her special favorite. >> reporter: that year in atlanta, ryan nick cools who was on trial for rape managed to grab a guard's gun and open fire. he killed a judge presiding over his case, a court reporter, and a sheriff's deputy. he later murdered a federal agent before being caught and sentenced to life in prison. this is about much more than personal tragedy. authorities know such violence and intimidation, left unchecked, can threaten the judicial process, making judges, prosecutors, everyone, feel unsafe when anyone gets mad at the courts. so, in texas, while investigators don't know if mark hasse's job cost him his life, they have to consider that possibility. erin? >> thanks to tom foreman. now our fourth story "outfront." one of the most outspoken nra supporters in the united states, a face you may recognize from a different world, rock star ted nugent. he invited us to his ranch in waco, texas, to talk about guns and do a little shooting. a sneak peek at a story you'll
see only "outfront" on monday. >> fire in the hole! >> reporter: for ted nugent, gun control is putting the second bullet in the same hole as the first. >> two down. ♪ >> reporter: the famed platinum-selling rocker is passionate about his music, his family, and his firearms. he's invited us to his ranch in waco, texas, to talk hunting, self-defense, and the second amendment. a lot of people look at the tragedy at sandy hook and they say, something's got to be done. >> agreed. >> they point to the weapons used as the cause. >> it's not the weapons, the weapons have nothing to do with it. again, these weapons are in every pickup truck in texas. so we've got to get past the hardware. >> reporter: nugent sticks to his guns, literally. for him, the second amendment is nonnegotiable.
>> america minds ted nugent and these are all legal guns and i'm going to see that they remain legal. because they're all good. >> they're all good. all right. what was it like to spend six hours with him? >> it was wild, wild. he's a very fun, passionate guy, very committed to god, his wife, his family, music, and guns. and that really comes across. when he gets to his ranch he becomes a whole different person. he's connected to the land, takes great pride in being able to know he can hunt and provide food for his family, they only eat the things he himself kills and he says it's humane, one quick shot. he'll spend hours and hours up in a tree waiting for that perfect shot. he says it's those guns that help him defend his family if needs be a ranch in texas, 300 acres. >> is there any middle ground? when you try to evaluate whether there's going to be gun control in this country? >> you know, he is a very visible face of the national rifle association. he believes in background checks. but he doesn't believe in
background checks for gun shows. he says statistically the number of guns used in crimes from gun shows is minimal. he reels off the numbers. he's got a firm grasp of the facts. he says there are billions of magazines, trillions of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of millions who have guns. he says, it's never going to happen. he says, you've got to focus on mental illness, on fixing the criminal justice system, not allowing paroled felons to be paroled -- >> not even for the loopholes -- >> not even for the loophole. he doesn't believe there's gun violence. he says, more people drown in buckets of water, and i pushed back on that and said, ted, you're not going to get a 20-year-old rounding up first graders and drowning them in buckets of water. he said, yes, you're right. look at drunk driving. he said, drunk drivers kill more innocent people than do guns every year. you're not going to ban cars. so he's got a very deep connection with the facts and the facts that he needs to make his argument.
>> it is going to be a really fantastic monday when deb's full piece with ted nugent will be "outfront" on monday. a 5-year-old boy has been held hostage in an underground bunker for four days. we'll go to alabama after this. a group of islamist vigilantes harassing women, ordering gays off the street. and this is happening in london.
we're back with tonight's "outer circle" where we reach out to sources around the world. london, islamist vigilante groups in europe are harassing women who wear mini skirts and telling gays and lesbians they have to get off the street. some muslim leaders are condemning the gang saying they're stirring up hatred of muslims. dan rivers is cover the story in london. i asked him how active these vigilante groups are. >> reporter: those doing these patrols are reveling in the media spotlight. actually the number of people involved is very, very small. five have been arrested on suspicion of harassment. these men claim they're simply tackling drunken behavior, where alcohol is already banned from the streets. but britain isn't the only country struggling to contain such behavior. in denmark, an islamist from another so-called muslim patrol stands menacingly outside a polling station, vowing to stop
muslims voting. in belgium, extremists want existing sharia courts which handle family matters to cover criminal matters in muslim areas. in spain, hard-line groups have angered locals by demanding pet dogs are banned from public transport and muslim neighborhoods, leading british muslims have but there is evidence that the lack of integration is partly because, in many cities across europe, white people are moving away from ethnically mixed neighborhoods. now our fifth story out front, alabama hostage standoff day four. tonight we're getting the first look at a man holding a kindergartner hostage in an underground bunker. jimmy lee dykes, a retired truck drive history moved to the area
five years ago. police say tuesday he boarded a school bus near his home, killed the driver, took the 5-year-old boy at gunpoint. victor, i know you have learned something about the connection between dykes and the bus driver. >> reporter: erin, that bus driver charles poland drove that route right down 231 at midland city, alabama, every day, and every day the route ended right at the road that leads up to jimmy lee dykes' property, the man inside that bunker. we've said as we've learned from neighbors the past few days that jimmy lee dykes is very protective of his property, they say he would walk his property line with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other and shout at anything or any animal that walked across his property. each day we're told by a man who's known the bus driver about 20 years, he would turn that bus on the road at the end of the road, just the tip of it, at jimmy lee dykes' property and
that made dykes angry. and he would shout at the man and the bus. what we're also told, there were times when he went in, speaking about the driver, who tried to mend fences, tried to make amends for driving on his property, took him presents. that didn't work. this might have been the catalyst for what happened on tuesday when, again, that bus stopped in front of jimmy lee dykes' property. >> the bunker is on his property. can you give us a sense of what is going on there, as we're now having day four of this hostage situation? >> reporter: let me tell you the first thing, the most important change that we've noticed here. this is a very cold night. we're told by people who live in this area, this is unseasonably cold, and that it will get, forecasters say, into the 20s tonight. there's been no confirmation of these supplies that are inside this bunker. so hopefully they have some heat there. but we know that local, state,
federal negotiators are on-site. we've seen them moving about all day. and there is this pipe that we've discussed, pvc pipe that's 20, 30, 40 feet long that goes from the road into this. bunker and from there, they're communicating with dykes, and they have told us there's no reason to assume this boy is in any danger, nor has he been harmed. >> what are investigators now working on in terms of, we're going to be talking to a hostage negotiator in a moment, but how are they trying to contact dykes, and what are they saying? are you able to tell us anything about that? >> reporter: well, the local law enforcement, state law enforcement are keeping everything close to the vest. they're not giving us much information about the negotiations. we do know there have been local members of the state senate who have been communicating with the parents of the boy and they have
been, of course, the parents are getting updates from law enforcement, but as far as all of that information coming to the media, it's been pretty much a blackout for us. all of the news conferences yesterday were canceled and we're still waiting for an update to come this evening. >> thank you. appreciate it. now to chris voss, a hostage negotiator, former member of the fbi. chris, you heard victor's reporting there. it's day four, in a bunker with a 5-year-old boy. what does this tell you about how the talks are going, that we're in day four? >> at this point, they have taken it to the stage where they're probably feeling they're at a bit of an impasse. they have given him an opportunity to talk. they have a pretty good idea of what's on his mind. they're struggling now for the threads they're going to be looking for that will be the keys to getting him out of this. they have learned a lot about him. and they realize now the patience is still the key. they're searching, sitting through what he said to see what the thread is going to be to unravel this.
>> as time goes by, what, from your experience, what are the chances that this story has a happy ending? >> well, the chances that it will have a happy ending are still very good. from what i can tell, i mean, i have been talking to people that are close to the scene. the threat level is not increasing. it's stable, and it's been stable for several days. as near as i can tell from what they're saying to me. that's a good sign. that actually gives them more options in terms of communication to try to find a way to get him thinking in a positive way so that he sees there's another way out of this, because really, physically, there is no way to get into this site. so they're going to have to talk him out, and the chances are very good that they will be able to. >> and i know you have been watching this story closely since the very beginning. in terms of the way it happened, that he went on this bus, that he killed the bus driver point blank, and he grabbed a 5-year-old boy. why this boy?
why not another child? do you think this is a purposeful selection of this child, that he had been watching this child, or is it random? >> the indicators are that the selection of the child was random. there's a pretty good chance he had been eyeing the bus and the turning around in the driveway was something that had been building up inside of him. some other apparent triggers here, the possibility that he had a court date that he had to face, and these things sort of weighed on him. as far as the actual child goes, that looks like it was random, which it bodes well overall for the safety of the child because that means that the child himself is not the target of the anger or his rage. >> and in terms of things that the negotiators are asking dykes, i'm always so curious how these conversations happen. when you say they're trying to get him think positively and do something to release the boy, first of all, he could be mentally disturbed, but he's well aware, if not, when he comes out, he's going to be in serious trouble. how do you convince someone like that that this is the right
thing to do? >> well, it's more how things line up with what he sees is necessary for his message as opposed to what we would perceive as the right thing to do. he wouldn't have taken all of these defensive measures if he didn't want to live. if he didn't want to live, he would have come out and gotten into a gun fight with law enforcement. as long as he wants to live, and if he has a message to get out, they need to connect those two things up to get him to come out. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time. hillary clinton officially resigned today. you may know about that, but we really are sure you don't know about this. we take a look back at some of the most special moments from her time as secretary of state in a very one-of-a-kind way. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain.
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